BPA YES/NO

[strobe willow]

As a member of the BPA I wanted to know what you all think.

In the last few weeks I have seen a lot of post's about people getting BPA trained. I just wondered if you think it's worth the paper it is written on or is a good quality hands on course more beneficial.

How many people have been asked to produce there card before being let on site. In the last two years we have been asked twice from around 600 displays.

If it is so important why is it not being enforced by anyone and why is there not only one course that is the industry standard. I have seen many people talking about another course on this site.

[Sosbe1]

A nationally recognised qualification for all firers, I believe is the way to go.

We put all of our firers through BPA level 1 as a minimum and suppliment with level 2 for display leaders in addition to providing all of our crews with regular in house training to bolster and instruct upon our own operational methods and procedures.

I have not heard of any of our firers being asked to produce evidence of BPA training to a customer, but we do get asked time and again for evidence when we are tendering for displays in the UK.

The key point here is that BPA training sets a benchmark for all to follow, and it's efforts in providing nationaly recognised accreditation for pro companies and firers can only ever be seen as a good thing for the fireworks industry.

[»PureParty]

a post from a BPA member if ever I saw one....

Seriously though....

I agree it is good that there is something that the industry as a whole is aware of, it's a starting point.

I would like the BPA to be more transparent with regards to its motives or indeed it's ambition for its training courses, as in would they like to move towards some sort of fireworks operator licence? There are bound to be those who see a licencing scenario as a good thing and I know there are those that think a move in that direction would "destroy the industry" (not my words by the way)

Since the courses were introduced, quite a few years ago now, we have heard nothing from the BPA, no updates on new training available (if it exists), no information on updated safe practices, no notification that our qualifications are about to expire etc. We were advised by our insurance company that BPA qualification was very likely to become a prerequisite for display insurance, that never happened.

You just get the feeling that it was a project that has just faltered somewhat??


Stu

[Quasar]

Originally Posted by PureParty

no notification that our qualifications are about to expire etc.

BPA qualification lasts for 5 years....On my BPA card it tells me when mine expires & I need to re-sit the BPA exam to qualify for another 5 years


One other thing....if someone was firing for a display company who didnt have a BPA qualification & there was a serious accident because of that persons lack of training, wouldnt the display company be in trouble for not having that person down as fully qualified. Surely it would invalidate the companys insurance too.

Thats why I think it is important to have the BPA qualification under your belt, for your benefit & the firing company

[»Skydazzle Pyrotechnics]

if someone was firing for a display company who didnt have a BPA qualification & there was a serious accident because of that persons lack of training wouldnt the display company be in trouble

Why would you assume that no BPA qualification means lack of training or not able to do the job safely.....

When you consider that the company that has had the worst accident in the last few years are BPA members and are still listed, it makes you wonder about the value of being a member!!

Also when the BPA finally get around to answering emails about membership and their requirements for accounts, which have no bearing whatsoever on safety, then they might get more companies joining them. At the moment it seems an "Old Boys" club that excludes the smaller majority....

[»PureParty]

It was a general point about the lack of communication between the organisation and the people who pay to sit their exams

One other thing....if someone was firing for a display company who didnt have a BPA qualification & there was a serious accident because of that persons lack of training, wouldnt the display company be in trouble for not having that person down as fully qualified. Surely it would invalidate the companys insurance too.

The BPA training and the qualification does not automatically mean someone can safely work on a display site, it is an academic qualification and is not a requirement for any insurance cover

[dogsbody]

I started crewing for a company last year only having done private displays before, they did ask what i had previously done and took me back to how they wanted me to learn, but I do think that there should be a nationally recognised qualification whether it be a city and guilds, BPA, illiminate consult or another. This way if you do move companies or get asked on a site etc you can prove it. I have heard horror stories on both here and UKPS of displays where stuff was taken out of a van one at a time and fired (on a public display) etc.


ok just because you have the 'ticket' to say you have passed still doesnt say you are competent at firing or competent to be on a firing site.

obviousley only the on site supervisor can confirm this. not having done Skybursts course (or BPA/IC/anone elses) I cant say what is better, qualification or no qualification only thing i can say is experience goes a long way

[ambientskies]

As far as my BPA "day" went, I sucked eggs then was set a badly worded exam paper. Was shown how fast QM went and what happens if you put a shell/mine upside-down in a tube at a cost of £120 I believe.

As I had to have been involved in rigging 3x cat4 displays, before being entitled to sit that exam, (although the chap sitting next to me had never lit a firework in his life) then I was already aware of the dangers involved in fireworks and what they did..

Have I said this all before?

I think the industry needs a set level of accomplishment with a membership that we all can recognize as being for the companies & the lone firer, but I don't think the BPA deserve our time or money anymore, due to their lack of interest with their lessor card carriers.

A day rigging with a professional company, being shown how to use different fusing methods and what does what. Throw in a talk on PPE and safety distances, do a few displays under the watchful eye of a ProCo then Bob's your auntie.

[Shockwave Pyrotechnics]

I've been asking the BPA for a replacement BPA 1 card for one of my firers for two years, he didn't receive it when we done the training. I've called them 4 times and e-mailed a dozen times. All calls and e-mails are ignored. I also had a conversation with them a year ago about something completely different and they asked have I ever considered becoming a member of the BPA, I asked them to send the details and didn't receive anything, I've since followed it up with a few phone calls and e-mails asking for the information, but again ignored. What sort of organisation is that??

Oh, and I've never been asked for proof of BPA training in 8 years I've been doing this.

[meggsy]

This chestnut just gets older and older We've discussed it so many times now and frankly we never had what I consider a coherant answer from the BPA or one of its members as to why it is such an exclusive club, I've heard mention of it being a matter of turnover, but this has never been confirmed.

I realised many years ago the the qualification wasn't really worth the paper it was written on and over the last 5 years of my possessing it and having fired hundreds of shows I have never been asked to produce it (although I did offer once ) didn't even bother with L2. The association claims it represents the 'Majority' of firework companies in the UK, can this be right?

To obtain a certificate to handle certain fuses and Cat 4 material, like the ADR, well I couldn't argue against that, it seems to me to be common sense. If anyone is in a position to implement this then the BPA or the EIG are clearly best placed.

There is so much I can say on this subject that I could write a short essay, but why use 6 words (as Stu would say) when you can use one.....'no'.....and another thing

I really hope that the BPA don't see this as an attack, I feel it's more a venting frustration that they dont open their doors to all; well all those willing to comply with and adopt an agreed set of principles and practices and not just make a companies financial situation and 'capital' the main criteria for membership (if that is indeed the case), terrible accidents and tragedy's can happen to anyone, no matter how much money your company makes.

But hey, what do I know.....enuff of my yakkin......i'll get back to me Fallas films....